I am very fortunate to work in a great district, and that I am beginning to establish a larger PLN week by week. The conversation started off with a middle school teacher in my district, Carlan Gallello, asking why are we still grading at the elementary and middle and evolved into a discussion which included myself, a principal, Heidi Hass Gable, my district's DPAC president as well as a principal from a nearby district, Chris Wejr. This is obviously just the start of a conversation, but it is one that needs to occur.
Why are we still grading grades 4-8 in BC? If the role of a teacher is to teach, and the role of the report card is to report on a child's progress, how do percentages and letter grades meet the criteria? A progress report should be anecdotal and explaining how the child is progressing. Using performance standards or something akin, would give a much clearer picture to the parents about how their child is doing, what their strengths in each academic area are as well as the areas that they need support for or to focus more on. Whether the students are an A, B, C+, C, C- student, each student will still have areas to focus on. It would be pretty rare that a student would be entirely in the exceeding category for everything. IF we are using differentiated instruction, adapting curriculum and work to meet their needs, are grades giving a clear picture?
If everything is percentages, then it would likely mean that everything is a summative assessment. It is, in my personal opinion, an ineffective way of communicating a child's progress.When I used to do my math marks by pure percentages, my students became focussed on percentages and test scores, rarely on areas that they needed to develop. I remember there were two boys who were highly competitive who were within a few decimals points of a percentage of each other, in the high 90%. Their first reaction was to whip out the calculator, calculate their percentages, ask about the weighting, and compare. They would then go into their files, recheck the scores and check with me what the overall average was now. The number became the area of attention and not the work. As I look back on it I wonder how I could have been so ignorant. How can the value of a number have more importance than the work itself? Why was the conversation not more focussed on how they could improve, what were their areas of success or comparing previous assignments to see if they had addressed some of the areas needing attention? I was sending the wrong message.
For those who believe in the power of Twitter and would like to demonstrate it to others, you can follow the thread below. Start at the bottom.
bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@MrWejr @HHG @remi_collins @datruss Definitely begins with
dialogue between all levels. Someone has to start it, though
22 minutes ago
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MrWejr Chris Wejr
@
@bandlady @HHG @remi_collins @datruss we all know what is
needed but struggle where to start within current structures
23 minutes ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@HHG @remi_collins @datruss In agreement there; give me
time to finish LTT, reports, and concert prep and I'm in; it's time
for this convo
25 minutes ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@MrWejr @HHG @datruss @remi_collins It's time for these
conversations and time for change :)
26 minutes ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@MrWejr @bandlady @datruss @remi_collins Dude - we'll talk
with you anytime!! :)
27 minutes ago
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MrWejr Chris Wejr
@
@HHG @bandlady @datruss @remi_collins into the
conversation I mean... Quite happy at my school! ;-)
27 minutes ago
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MrWejr Chris Wejr
@
@HHG @bandlady @datruss @remi_collins jealous of the
conversations happening in SD43! I want in!
28 minutes ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@bandlady @remi_collins @datruss No, Remi's right - Mo first,
then TG. And other pres'
34 minutes ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@HHG @remi_collins @datruss Could be; I don't know much
about them
42 minutes ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@remi_collins @bandlady @datruss There's the Student
Achievement Advisory Committee - would be a good place to
ask question maybe?
51 minutes ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@remi_collins @HHG @datruss HHG's perfect for that since
DPAC pres; I'd certainly be willing as well
51 minutes ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@HHG @remi_collins @datruss Remi, you're an
administrator...1st steps? District's all over formative assessment
right now; perfect chance
53 minutes ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@bandlady @remi_collins @datruss Sounds good to me!
55 minutes ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@HHG @remi_collins @datruss For sure, but I'm thinking baby
steps. Like @remi_collins idea of talking to Maureen as well
56 minutes ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@remi_collins @bandlady @datruss Whether he's Minister of Ed
or Premier - isn't either a person you want to influence?
58 minutes ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@remi_collins @bandlady @datruss Oops - I already asked
what he thinks! :) But yes, we should discuss as District - just
curious!
59 minutes ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@bandlady @remi_collins @datruss Well, our Minister of Ed
wants feedback - why don't we ask? #justsaying
1 hour ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@remi_collins @HHG @datruss If we were able to shift
reporting to progressive style,I would be in favour of reporting
after every key unit
1 hour ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@remi_collins @bandlady Put clear assessment language
together with how 2 help kids move 2 next level & parents
wouldn't be hard 2 convince!
1 hour ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@HHG @remi_collins I think it needs to be all the way to grade
9, since percentages aren't supposed to be used until grade
10#justsaying
1 hour ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@HHG @remi_collins @datruss Will we have this dialogue
before I retire?The kids understand it, why not the adults ie
MINISTRY! Can we pilot?
1 hour ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@remi_collins @bandlady Don't forget that Gr 4 and 5 has to
stop using letters too! I'll help! #justsaying
1 hour ago
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bandlady Carlan Gallello
@
@remi_collins I know; so why aren't we changing and using the
performance standard language? Shouldn't we be
consistent?#justsaying
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply
@bandladyCarlan Gallello
@remi_collins I know; so why aren't we changing and using the
performance standard language? Shouldn't we be
consistent? #justsaying
1 hour ago via TweetDeck Favorite Retweet Reply
HHG Heidi Hass Gable
Have I mentioned that I love my District?? Most amazing people
ever! #SD43rocks
58 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@remi_collins @bandlady @datruss There's the Student
Achievement Advisory Committee - would be a good place to
ask question maybe?
1 hour ago
https://twitter.com/https://twitter.com/https://twitter.com/
HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@bandlady @remi_collins @datruss Sounds good to me!
1 hour ago
https://twitter.com/https://twitter.com/https://twitter.com/
HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@remi_collins @bandlady @datruss Whether he's Minister of Ed
or Premier - isn't either a person you want to influence?
1 hour ago
https://twitter.com/https://twitter.com/https://twitter.com/
HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@
@remi_collins @bandlady @datruss Oops - I already asked
what he thinks! :) But yes, we should discuss as District - just
curious!
replies ↓
remi_collins Remi Collins
@bandlady absolutely, going to take a lot of work and discussion,
much dialogue with PAC and parents, will take time#justsaying
1 hour ago
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HHG Heidi Hass Gable
@bandlady Or why not "holy cow!" "Ready for the next step" and
"working on it" - or some variation of those?? #justsaying
1 hour ago
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply
bandlady Carlan Gallello
(cont from last tweet) then we could have comments on how to
improve and support learning; send home after each unit
completed#justsaying
1 hour ago
https://twitter.com/https://twitter.com/https://twitter.com/
bandlady Carlan Gallello
Why do we still assign letter grades for middle school in BC
Would like to see a check
I love your introduction! The real power of the twitter conversation is that it crossed the parent/teacher gap, the admin/teacher gap the school/district gap and with me piping in now, the pacific ocean gap:-)
ReplyDeleteTwitter is the 2nd best Pro-D I've ever done, (with blogging sneaking past to take first place- sometimes 140 characters just isn't enough!)
Why letter grades/percents? It goes "Beyond TTWWADI" (Google it)!
Fear has a lot to do with it... what will the parents say? What will the admin say?
Well, I actually did it... in Coquitlam and in Grade 10!
Students got 2 marks (percentages) all semester for Planning 10 in my class. They got a mid-term and a final mark, required on report cards, and I didn't chose it, they did! They picked a mark and then we discussed it based on conversations, expectations and comparisons with what I thought was exemplary work. In 2 classes of 28 and 29 students, I helped guide a total of 4 or 5 of them up or down a few percents, and beyond that, they picked their own grade... doing a very good job of it I might add!
One interesting anecdote from that experience, I had one class that was almost all IB students where marks really mattered. Anecdotal feedback without marks attached drove them a bit crazy to start... but, one kid at the end of the term, after picking his own mark, told me, "That's going to be my lowest mark this semester."
But he wasn't arguing, he was only making a statement. He knew he could have done better and he also knew he could have done more and earned a better mark, (you see I also allowed students to go back to their digital projects and improve them at any time, because Learning Outcomes don't come with teacher timelines only semester timelines. He was willing to accept the self-imposed low 'A' rather than put more work into it.
So, what's stopping us from purely anecdotal report card up to Grade 8? The marks are not needed for university... there are no excuses but FEAR and TTWWADI!
What does a mark or grade actually mean, really? Does an "A" or "B" for English 11 mean the same thing across all teachers? A bigger question is, what is a dogwood, really? I think ultimately marks and grading systems are for parents and society to believe there is some reality to a sorting system and then for check-boxing entry to university.
ReplyDeleteWhat about a mastery model backed by a portfolio of work evolved from school entry to school exit with some form of comparable assessments along the way, makes sense for the 21st century. Employers want to know what you can do for them - what you know (or knew when you wrote the test) has a short shelf life on its own. Universities need a new way to have "K12" articulate graduates that is more than a grade. I'm not an educator so just speculating here but I think we can do better - we aren't producing factory workers in Coquitlam for the most part...
First of all, like Dave said, the power of twitter amazes me. Here we are having a conversation that is so badly needed by parents/educators/admin/district personnel who perhaps have not even met each other! Wonderful!
ReplyDeleteI would love to propose we have pilot classes at each level (elementary, middle (pick me!!!), and high school). My vision for assessment in my classroom is this: My students already know that I'm going to be constantly assessing (using performance standards)and constantly checking in with them. I would love to have a report sent home after each unit, showing the learning outcomes covered and using the performance standards language. Not every child will receive exceeds expectations in every subject; that's where we have to provide parents with succinct anecdotal comments on what exactly is happening and how we can support that learning. I think that this would tell our parents and students exactly where they are and allow us to plan for more learning.
Make sense???
My big thing with grades is that in many classrooms, they come from assignments having to do with specific units. I doubt any of you remember everything you learned in, for example, Social Studies at the elementary and middle school level. I'm more concerned with the learning experience as a whole and with the skills that students learn through these units, and if/how they can apply them elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteDave, even some of my grade 4/5 students were going a little crazy this last term when they received anecdotal feedback instead of a straight grade on one of the larger assignments. I know I worried about grades when I was their age and now I think: why?
Thanks for the post, Remi - I was following this conversation on Twitter!
Thanks Dave, Brian, Carlan and Michal. This is an important issue and all of you give excellent reasons. It would be an interesting debate looking at why we should not change it over. I am sure that some people will argue that we are just changing the coding system from A, B, C+, C, C- to NYM, AE, ME, EE but they are missing the point, it is the pedagogical reasoning that accompanies the different methodolgies and practice that go with it.
ReplyDeleteIs there not more value in a student looking at the feedback and thinking "oh right, I should have put more information in my explanation, when I saw what others wrote I realized that I needed to put more" vs "If I had only not forgotten that 1 I would have gotten a B".
Just a thought... Thank you so much all of you for your input, and feel free to join the conversation any time. It is only thorugh conversation and debate that the changes will happen.
I don't know if you had a chance to see my latest post on connected Principals where I wrote about a different type of grading system.
ReplyDeleteAkevy (akevy613)
Remi I love the idea. Imagine what it would do for learning and teaching in a math class if it wasn't about the score or the test. maybe fractions and decimals would be connected instead of being different chapters in a text.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, the twitter trail and this blog post were brought up at an admin meeting I was at yesterday afternoon from noboday on the twitter trail or the blog. good topics get around.
Mike, I think we are on the right trail in the district with a Superintendent that supports a ctreative process to engage students' learning. I was amazed at the number of people following this conversation, would have loved for them to jump in!
ReplyDelete