tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381187568583718836.post6057675150355145213..comments2014-06-08T23:10:56.076-07:00Comments on Remi's Random Ramblings: My struggles with the FSAsRemihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17627852226185370848noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381187568583718836.post-7234699061070360472011-02-16T18:22:21.454-08:002011-02-16T18:22:21.454-08:00Thanks David for your thoughts. I think one of th...Thanks David for your thoughts. I think one of the biggest issues around this test is the fact that the results, regardless of whether it is a public or private school, could be questioned because of the lack of control over the product. Just the sheer fact that those questions can be posed is a problem. If some institutions have had their curriculum questioned in one year suddenly make great improvements, because of the lack of reliability of the test results, questions will be there. It is almost like the Lance Armstrong debate, was his performance juiced or not? No evidence has been found that was the case, but there are people convinced that he could not do it on his own. Maybe he just worked really hard.Remihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627852226185370848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381187568583718836.post-23701907748159382262011-02-16T18:16:48.831-08:002011-02-16T18:16:48.831-08:00Chris, I agree with 100% about communication. If ...Chris, I agree with 100% about communication. If parents are satisfied with the communication with respect to their children's progress, much of this broohaha goes away. When that piece is not there then the call for accountability becomes loud.<br /><br />Tom, you raise really good points. I personally do not have any issues with the original reason for the FSAs to be there. The information can be quite useful. I dislike what it has become because of THAT institute. The purpose and validity have been altered in an unsatisfactory way in my opinion. Thanks for the thoughts.Remihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17627852226185370848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381187568583718836.post-36104112882789173362011-02-16T16:42:59.036-08:002011-02-16T16:42:59.036-08:00Kevin,
I don't think it's fair to accuse ...Kevin,<br /><br />I don't think it's fair to accuse the independent schools of cheating on the FSA's. <br /><br />I'm pretty sure that the perfect 10s that you can see in the Fraser Institute report don't represent perfect scores from the students. The Fraser institute has norm-referenced the scores, which mean a 10 really means "you did better than everyone else" and a lower score just means "you did worse".<br /><br />I could go into further analysis and try to create a more useful z score from the Fraser institute data, which would mean we could measure in terms of standard deviations from the mean, rather than a relatively useless ranking system.<br /><br />Not that the scores mean anything, as Remi has pointed out.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08098221991466148258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381187568583718836.post-4268467887708520732011-02-16T16:15:35.045-08:002011-02-16T16:15:35.045-08:00A very thoughtful post Remi. I think there are tw...A very thoughtful post Remi. I think there are two separate issues. First is the tests themselves, and while I am not about to defend standardized tests, I think it is unrealistic to imagine a system of 4 billion dollars not having some third party checks-and-balances. I think we need 5 billion, but that's a different issue altogether! We expect politicians, mechanics, doctors, and others to be accountable...we should be too. Again, not defending the FSA...maybe it's the wrong method of "checking", however, I don't believe the schedule of tests (only gr. 4 and 7) is excessive. The kids I've seen stressing over the FSAs are the same ones who stress about school-based tests. The other end of the spectrum is whether kids (especially Gr. 7s)take it seriously since it doesn't count.<br /><br />However, the way THAT Institute uses the results is the real issue. If the results could be used by the province and school districts for what is was intended I don't think we would have near the controversy. We have K-5 elementary schools in our district, however, the grade 7 students count in their results even though they have been in Middle School for almost 2 years. Their math at best is inaccurate; at worst it's fictitious. <br /><br />I think year-to-year comparisons are pointless. We need to begin looking at data longitudinally. Some groups are stronger than others, but sometimes the weaker groups improve at a greater rate. I think that would be a more useful way to monitor student achievement, especially if we are going to do it on an individual basis.<br /><br />Admittedly I am a bit more moderate on the FSAs than most I know. Not a fan but I do accept the notion of some accountability to the public when it comes to our system's effectiveness. For me it's more of a question of method.<br /><br />Great post...made me think...those are the best kind!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381187568583718836.post-68879455382951122582011-02-16T15:44:46.242-08:002011-02-16T15:44:46.242-08:00Thanks for speaking up about this Remi. We have a ...Thanks for speaking up about this Remi. We have a number of students pulled from writing our tests and often they are students who would do well on the tests. I have witnessed students in tears sitting in front of a computer screen for an hour trying to choose the best answer. It is never an easy time at our school and I believe that you only need to observe the students writing the tests to begin to question if this is best for our kids. The key is that parents want to know how their child is doing - so I think we need to focus on parent communication and performance standards. Maybe if we communicate with parents better, the need for tests like these would be less necessary?Chris Wejrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12780371633522986214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7381187568583718836.post-23532762744494434552011-02-12T21:37:35.741-08:002011-02-12T21:37:35.741-08:00Good observations Remi. And when you consider tho...Good observations Remi. And when you consider those variables beyond the control of the school, it seems miraculous that all those independent schools can achieve 100%. Divine intervention might explain the faith based schools but what accounts for the complete lack of errors in the secular schools?<br />In those hundreds of children not a single one clicked the wrong choice in 70 multiple choice questions. Nor did one of them missinterpret the reading selection or have a bad day writing their long essay. How are we to interpret such perfection? Clearly the mortal environment that you so ably describe is not the state in Bountiful and the rest of these elite schools.Kevin Akinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10791524117199343281noreply@blogger.com